I've been getting busy on the exercises that Katie gave me for Coriander: I've been using circles and shoulder-fore to try to get a specific canter lead, the canter cue is good but getting the left lead is still a bear. I'll get him bent nicely to the left, cue the canter, and he sneaks that right shoulder out almost every time. I've seen this horse pick up the left lead canter fluidly without me on his back, so I don't think it's a physical issue- which would point to me being the issue except that when I'm on the friesian right lead canter is harder. Conundrums.
I've got some cones set up in my makeshift field ring to work on the square/turn on the forehand exercise. I took Gwen with me to set them up on Sunday, and for the first time ever she was fine going that far away from the herd by herself (squee!)! I'm so proud of her, she's been doing so well lately. Trotting under saddle has become her new favorite thing, which means that she's done a lot of "I'm going to trot now" transitions without me. I made the mistake of rewarding her the very first time she spontaneously offered trot so now she thinks she'll get rewarded for it every time. I'll have to remember not to click her for spontaneously offering canter. We've been doing a lot of trot/walk transitions lately, I don't want to squash her forward but I can't have her running off without me either. Horse training- not as easy as you'd think!
The other thing I've been working on with Coriander is jaw flexions. I've been merging info from a couple of different sources for this: Katie, Mark Russell, Mike Schaffer, and JME's excellent post here. We've been making progress at the halt, he's started softening and dropping his head as soon as I pick up the reins, but moving it's a different story- he immediately braces against me. We have a lot more work to do there.
It bothers me that there isn't more information available about jaw flexions, it seems like they're a basic tenet of classical dressage, Baucher was big on them, yet it's like no one talks about it, much less films it and puts it on YouTube. Seriously, this cruddy video is the only one I can find.
Plus, since no one is talking about it they don't tell you that weird stuff can happen. On Saturday I worked on flexions with Coriander and then asked him to walk off. Five strides later his front legs buckled like he was going to roll, I leaped off and kept him from going all the way down (no WAY is he rolling on my Ansur), but I couldn't get over how odd it was for him to do that. Then I found this video of a horse reacting to jaw flexions (the action starts at 19 seconds):
Was his attempt to roll a reaction to the jaw flexions? Poor boy, there I was mad at him for what might have been a neurological response.
I'll have some more information about these elusive flexions soon...
PS- please let me know if that obnoxious word verification thing comes up. I meant to get rid of that.
You're functioning on a much higher plane than I am. I've never worried about jaw flexions. I wouldn't be surprised though if the rolling and the flexions have something in common. At my TTouch session, she said the roof of the mouth is an acupuncture point for the gut and digestion. Nausea, upset stomach? massage the roof of your mouth. I wonder if the mouth work of TTouch would help with flexions? She uses warm water on her hands and then does the mouth work--in the bit area (between the teeth), the tongue (with hand between the bit area), roof of the mouth and front gums and top lip (which releases endorphins.)
ReplyDeleteDon't sell yourself short, with the TTouch work you've been doing you're working on a pretty high plane yourself :)
DeleteI've actually done some of the gum work with Gwen, but it was a long time ago. I should take that up again.
First, yay Gwen!!! I am no where near working with jaw flexion, but I do find it interesting. I am not sure if you pointed me here or I found it on my own last time you posted about jaw flexion, but I found this article interesting. http://happybottom.net/blog/?p=366
ReplyDeleteI would tell you how to do it but I'm still learning myself, though it seems that once you do it right it's a pretty handy tool for every horse. Thanks for the link!
DeleteGood for Gwen. She sounds like she's liking her trot.
ReplyDeleteThe first video is so dark I really couldn't see anything. If they think it's a training aid they're off a bit there. Interesting how the horse went down in the second one. I don't think I know enough about this to comment.
I haven't really worked on jaw flexions, specifically, so I don't know how they are done correctly either. We (JME and I) use the guidelines in the post you highlighted and they work well for all our horses.
Exactly, that video is awful and it's the only one out there. The references I've been able to find to jaw flexions are actually pretty similar to what your daughter wrote. I think you're doing the same thing with a different name, or close to it. But her words definitely got me started on the right path.
Deletehi - ghm said you gave one of my posts a mention so i thought i'd stop by :-) i don't get to visit nearly as much as i'd like these days :-(
ReplyDeleteglad you're finding some of it helpful. if you're having trouble getting the release you want while in motion, maybe i can make a suggestion? i find a small, gentle pulse and release on that inside opening rein in time with the rhythm of the gait usually is a nice introduction the inside flexion for a more resistant horse than a steady pressure, even when making turns or circles.
i know it sounds bad and horribly wrong, but you'll almost 'wag' the head and neck slightly inward just for a beat with each step and then totally release so the horse knows you aren't going to 'hold' his head there; for some of them it's a security/balance issue when in motion at first. it's just a little squeeze of the rein with the hand opened to the inside, just to make the suggestion at first, but it might help to get the effect you want without a fight?
as far at the jaw flexions go, there is very little out there. i couldn't see much of anything in the first video, but i would say that reaction in the second video is definitely NOT normal and nothing to do with rolling. that looked like restricted blood flow to a major artery or something. i'd like to see what preceded it, not just the aftermath...
the truth is, as with a lot of things in the dressage world, i think this stuff gets overcomplicated. which is not to say i'm any expert, but my interpretation of baucher is that he was looking for a simple way to disengage tension and resistance so that he could engage the proper muscles for good dressage. maybe i can try to make some better sense of it for myself and post something. now you've got me thinking!
Thank you, I will try that!
DeleteI agree, the second video is super strange- plus they don't show the flexions they did before they shot this bit. Weird all around.
I agree, flexions seem so easy (says the person who doesn't really know what she's doing yet), so I don't understand why it's like a secret, underground exercise that no one knows about.
it's so weird! maybe they're not really that secret, at least the way i interpret them, but to hear the way most trainers talk about them you'd think they were some huge mystery only they knew the answer to. but it's not that tricky once you know what it's supposed to do and how it works. it's actually really basic and easy - as i understand it, anyway. i'm going to try to do a post on them when i get a few minutes now that i've got them on my mind!
DeleteWhen I do flexions with Cassie I vibrate the rein slightly by squeezing it once or twice, then wait for her to follow the feel, if she doesn't respond I repeat it. Cassie immediately braces against any form of steady pressure, but this works for her, maybe Coriander might prefer that too?
ReplyDeleteYou and JME are on the same wavelength :) Two people offered the same advice so now I have to try it. Coriander really stands his ground if he thinks he's in a fight so I think this idea will be the one for him.
DeleteI really like the article below (originally published in Dressage Today). I have also ridden with the trainer twice and he showed me how to ask Harley to flex at the poll under saddle at the halt. The muscles around the poll have to let go, which is where the upper jaw (the skull) rests on the first vertebrae. I think that the lower jaw is not really doing the flexing.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.artisticdressage.com/articles/flexions.html
Hope you like it!
Thanks for the link! I'm going to enjoy reading that one.
DeleteThere is a reason why flexions are the "black box" of dressage, and it's best explained by Jean Froissard. As he points out in his book "Classical Horsemanship for Our Time," flexions are "powerful means of domination...rather dangerous...and their practice requires great discernment." He goes so far as to say that those who employ them must be "possessed of both innate and acquired equestrian tact."
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I agree with him, and that's part of the reason it's so hard to explain them or to provide a guide to their use, despite how important and useful they are! I usually don't recommend them or try to teach them unless I know that someone has excellent timing for pressure and release (like Shannon). Natural horsemanship, with its focus on pressure and release and clicker training with its focus on timing can help refine those abilities.
There are lots of different flexions and it's important to have a sense of what to ask, when to ask, and how much to ask. It's something best learned in person, and over time, ideally with different horses.
Flexions are a bit of a "throwback," and not too many professionals use them, so it can be hard to find someone to teach them. I read Thomas Ritter's article that Val linked to, and it's a very different approach to my own. I don't believe in beginning with poll flexion.
I believe in beginning with flexions of the jaw, then of the neck, and only after that, "direct flexions," which are the poll flexions Ritter highlights. In this, I'm in the same camp with Froissard and Philippe Karl. Both Froissard's book and Karl's "Twisted Truths of Modern Dressage" as well as Karl's first DVD are excellent demonstrations of flexions. Even they vary in technique and approach, although both are based in the classical French tradition.
General L'Hotte also focused on the jaw as the primary source for unlocking the flexibility and suppleness of the horse. He said, "Ramener is not limited to the position of the head, it resides first of all in the submission of the first "spring" that receives the action of the hand: the jaw. If this "spring" yields softly when asked, it will lead to a flexible neck and cause the other "springs" to also soften."
Hi Katie,
DeleteThanks for reading the article. I agree that flexions require a great deal of tact and are best learned in person, even though they will be difficult to reproduce without a certain degree of feel. The technique which I learned from Dr. Ritter required a very small movement of one rein and my horse answered the request satisfactorily when he offered a very small movement in return (turning just his face to the left or right so that I could see the edge of his nostril and eyelash). As the muscles around the poll let go, through gentle repetition at the halt, he was able to flex longitudinally, lengthen his neck, and move with improved fluidity without additional aiding from me. Asking him to flex in the neck or just trying to move his jaw would not have been helpful, because he already had a "wiggly" neck and mobile jaw. The poll was the place where he was tight and reluctant to yield. He was able to "hide" those tight muscles by moving his jaw and neck instead. After the tension around his poll was addressed, my horse was more able to step through from behind.
Thanks for initiating yet another interesting blog post topic, smaz!
My pleasure, though I must admit I'm not quite sure where you two don't agree. What you're describing seems to be what Katie is telling me to do- just a gentle movement of the skull/atlas joint to one side. Reading Ritter's article it seems like he bends the horse a little more than that to start with and continues with a whole neck flexion more like what I'd think of a western trainer using.
DeleteWhen I read "poll flexion" I think of an up-down motion of the head instead of the side-to-side motion I've been aiming for. This is the problem, since the poll can move up/down and side-to-side and the horse should ideally flex in all directions, it's hard to know what anyone is talking about when they use those words.
So many ways to interpret this movement!
Checking in again on this fascinating discussion on a topic dear to my heart. Val -- Thank you so much for clarifying your experience of flexions with Dr. Ritter. Yours is a great example of why it's so hard to explore this without someone there to guide you in person. Dr. Ritter's article seemed to me to encourage more extreme flexions and to focus on the poll while ignoring the jaw. In the context of your own horse, though, clearly the flexions were appropriate and successful, and the mobility of the jaw was taken into consideration.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, Shannon -- it's exactly that slight lateral flexion that I was recommending when Coriander braces in his own naive attempt to find balance. This subtle flexion often results in mobilization of the jaw, and I encourage it for that purpose alone. Once the relaxation takes place in the mouth -- in the jaw and the tongue -- the poll will follow!
Standing flexions are another way to encourage mobilization of the jaw (and later, the poll), but it's usually easier to understand how to perform the very slight lateral flexions under saddle. Baucher would be appalled, I'm sure, but he never had a chance to develop his Third Method!
Thank you Katie, after this weekend you'll be able to tell me if I'm getting it right!
DeleteThanks smaz and Katie. I just wanted to clarify, since I know that there are some really "ugly" flexing-type activities out there and I would not want anyone to think that Mr. Harley is subjected to anything rude. He wouldn't tolerate it anyway. :)
DeleteNo one could accuse you of that :)
Deletephillipe karl's book and video are great - finally got my TB to relax is jaw and chew the bit after several years of bracing. got the video at the library - there is an excellent step by step demonstration of how to do it.
DeleteI was actually just discussing his work with Katie- I'm going to see if I can get my hands on a copy. Thanks for commenting!
DeleteIf you don't already know about this I'll give you a site where you can rent DVD's from instead of buying them. Watch them first and if you like what you see you can always shell out the money then. Here's a site for horsey DVD rentals: Giddyupflix.com
ReplyDeleteI've got the Phillipe Karl book and DVD's and love them. Even did a review on them along with some other videos I liked. I'm sure you'll find a lot of useful info.
I've put it on the top of my queue :)
ReplyDeletePS- I tried the link on your blog to the review and it wasn't working :(